EQ Readthrough: Issue 3, The Challenge

[elf]

LINK: Issue 3: The Challenge
Questions for this issue:

• What do you think of the Sun Villagers?
• How do you think the challenge wand came about?
• Did you think the challenges were fair, and fairly won?

Main OQR post with prompt questions
Note: These aren't mandatory questions; they're meta prompts. If you don't care for any of them, or want to tangent from them to some other topic, that's fine too.

Comments

[elf]

       

On first reading, the recognition poem struck me so strongly that I instantly memorized it, and it's been in my head for over twenty-five years. It's only on the recent readthrough (not any of the other ones I've done over the years) that it's struck me that... I'm not sure it translates to the other gender. And, of course, it conflates recognition with love, which we later understand not to be true. Hrmf.

Also, WTF is with this challenge wand thingie? Who came up with this contest, and who let it get in the way of recognition? Do two women vying for a man's affections challenge each other to tests of strength, wits, and courage?

Concepts that seemed perfectly reasonable background details when I read them in the early 80's now seem quaint and sexist, and not-quite-believable in comparison with the rest of the info about the elves of the world of two moons.

More problems to be fixed through fanfic. Someone should (1) figure out how the challenge wand system came to be, and (2) write that story, describing both its origins & its later fall into disuse.

Maybe dual recognitions used to be possible?

[anke]

What stands out about the challenges to me is that the challenge of "head" was solved more on a basis of who happened to have the most practical stuff on him - not only the bit with pulling their respective nice out of crevices with their necklaces, but also Cutter happening to have trousers he could unravel for a rope. If it had been about intelligence/inventiveness rather than that kind of luck, Rayek should have won.

I also find it strange that it would be easier for Cutter to smell a kind of metal from far, far away, rather than, say, the sweat of the elves who hid New Moon. As far as I know, canids' sense of smell is not universally awesome - for example monkeys do way better when it comes to fruit smells - so it seems weird.

[eldriwolf]

I figure the "Soulmate chant" was *just* the first bit.
In this case the challenge was for "right to court". There might be Other reasons to challange..

No requirement that she Accept the courting .
... I thought the stuff startin "maiden" was made up for this event,
Any human bard could do that so it would be Easy for Savah to give a nudge to our girl


I personally always thought that recognition had something to do with "Gonna have one or more Children with this one"... Kids being so rare in elf lands, the spirits of 'elves to be', 'take a hand' in getting themselves born, to make sure their parents hook-up.
And you might be "fated to have kids" with more than one.
If that is so, you might, (over the course of a *fabulously long life* end up recognizing more than one partner


I seem to remember *Some* elves as being polly--- so perhaps there is Multi-recognition, too.

I am personally certain there are gay elves, we just don't *see* them yet

[elf]

The "head" challenge seemed to be about "clever use of resources," rather than any actual intelligence. Cutter had senses that made certain skills irrelevant, and it didn't matter that it takes no direct intelligence to use those senses.

And yeah, with you on the metal-sniffing.

The test seemed to reward luck much more than forethought. Although I suppose that doesn't much matter, if the point is that the winner gets to woo the lady, not "marry" her. (The more I think about the whole challenge thing, the less sense it makes.)

[anke]

No requirement that she Accept the courting .

I think that was an attempt to salvage a fundamentally sexist concept at least a little. Ehwell.

... I thought the stuff startin "maiden" was made up for this event
Assuming the Challenge Wand is meant for general situations of rivalry, and Savah made up or chose the stuff dealing with Recognition from a woman's perspective to fit the situation, might make sense. Earlier, before the Sun Folk went all agrarian pacifists, a ritual safety valve to defuse rivalries might have been useful.
(Or we could just blame it on "worldbuilding as the story progressed, rather than up front" ;))

I personally always thought that recognition had something to do with "Gonna have one or more Children with this one"...
Yeah, that's canon, apart from the bit that in the comics, it's one child per recognition, so if one pair of elves has more than one child, they recognised more than once (excluding twins).

If that is so, you might, (over the course of a *fabulously long life*) end up recognizing more than one partner.
That's canon, too; I know it's mentioned in Wolfrider.

I seem to remember *Some* elves as being polly--- so perhaps there is Multi-recognition, too.

Do you mean polygamous?
You don't need Recognition for that. I can offhand think of four "couples" of three elves each, and the two of them that involved Recognition had it just between two of the elves involved. (Not naming them because I don't know how far you've read and if you mind spoilers.)

I am personally certain there are gay elves, we just don't *see* them yet
There are no gay elves, all elves are pansexual.

[adalger]

How do you think the challenge wand came about?

I could see a scene like this happening in Potterverse:

===

"Really, Snivellus? You think it's all about magic?" James' voice came low, menacing, the same as the fire behind his eyes. "I'll show you how much magic has to do with it."

He hurled his wand at the ground, point down as if playing mumbledypegs, so it stuck three inches into the soft soil. "I'm about to do three things, Snape. I'm going to prove to you I'm stronger than you by thrashing you right here and now. I'm going to prove I'm smarter by making you take the blame for it. Then I'm going to show you I'm not a coward like you by speaking up and telling the truth about all this."

===

If I had canon for "way back when elves used wands for magic," or even for "way back when elves used ritual knives for spiritual purposes," I'd imagine it much the same way.

On an unrelated note, I'm starting to suspect the reason I loved these books so much as a teenager was because of all those boobs.

[arcanetrivia]

I am personally certain there are gay elves, we just don't *see* them yet
There are no gay elves, all elves are pansexual.

Although as far as what we actually see depicted, it's a while before there's any specific same-sex activity, IIRC. (possibly counting the Go-Back "orgy" as it's been sometimes called *chuckles* but I mean in the context of couples or threes.)

[anke]

I know what I like about Elfquest is that, while it has lots of pretty, scantily clad women, that's true of the men as well.

If it has to be eyecandy, at least it can be equal-opportunity eyecandy. ;)

[isis]

I read a few of the letters at the back of some of the issues during my recent online re-read, and in the answer to one, Richard Pini specifically says that there are no gay elves - but that many of them enjoy pleasure with either sex. He also made some extremely negative comments about Kirk/Spock fanfiction either in that or another response (I forget).

There are two canonical three-matings that I know of, one MMF and the other MFF; there is also a case of MM lovemates although one of them Recognized and sired a child.

[blnchflr]

He also made some extremely negative comments about Kirk/Spock fanfiction either in that or another response (I forget).
Well, he sucks, then!

[blnchflr]

I know what I like about Elfquest is that, while it has lots of pretty, scantily clad women, that's true of the men as well.
Particularly in this issue I found that while the women's bodies are idealized and sexed up and will give female readers inferiority complexes, hell, so are the men's and must make male readers feel crappy about their flabby abdomens compared to Cutter's :oD